PvP rewards and penalties

[BuFFo]

Two players fight, and one wins...

What should the winner gain, if anything, and what should the loser lose, if anything?

Should the winner gain normal experience? A portion of the loser's gold? Items from the loser?

What should happen to the loser? Needs to retrieve his stuff, or pay to have it teleported to him? Have a penalty to stats for 10 minutes? Be immune to death by a player for 5 minutes?

Also, in Leaiva Online, we are thinking of rewarding PvP participants, both losers and winners, a special kind of Experience/Money/Whatever, which allows you to purchase or be eligible for special gear, not necessarily just for PvP, but not attainable by non PvP means.

What are your opinions in what you like/want?

[PwnedByRyan]

I'm personally crazy about this stuff and have played "full loot" games before and enjoyed them...  but from my personal experiences I've found a portion of the money that they're carrying and a rare pvp token/item that can be used for a special purpose.  I also really like the idea of titles based on your k/d ratio in pvp, factoring in total kills as well.  I think I've enjoyed pvp titles more than anything honestly.

[BuFFo]

So I got from you..

- PvP titles
- Loser drops some gold
- Loser may drop a special trophy
- Loser may drop a special token that can be used to purchase special items
- Keep track of Kill ratios, Statistics, etc...

Duly noted, and thanks

[Silviyius]

I would prefer full item drops.  However I hate losing valuable items and having to re-buy them, So maybe we could set it so we could check up to 3 "maybe more" items to keep upon death.  Maybe even a new player having only one slot and having to earn the others by other means.  Maybe more Item protection slots can be bought with special tokens you guys spoke of, also trophys would be cool to be-able to place in your player owned house if we ever get to that!  Also money should be something that is counted as item.  You shouldn't be carrying your wealth with you anyways however I understand some get money in some games doing PvP.

XP gain & Players dropped items
Something to keep track of playing killing

Not related but perhaps we could have multiple sets of items that can only be worn with a certain players killed with PvP based benefits.  I say this cause I see in most games the kill death ratio is nothing more then fun and usually has no value of getting it up besides prestige, but I see you guys have thought of this too somewhat.

[BuFFo]

Not related but perhaps we could have multiple sets of items that can only be worn with a certain players killed with PvP based benefits.  I say this cause I see in most games the kill death ratio is nothing more then fun and usually has no value of getting it up besides prestige, but I see you guys have thought of this too somewhat.

The idea is to have a couple kinds of "levels" for players;
Player Level - gained through normal experience
Glory Level -  gained through PvP experience, allows for new items only attainable though certain levels of Glory
Honor Level - gained by doing certain quests, allows for players to enter certain NPC towns and areas without being attacked, will also open up Quests given to you by that NPC race.

So yeah, killing players will yield rewards instead of just having a number to brag about.
-

[Muffin]

I don't really like K/D ratios on MMO's...
But I think the reward for killing someone else should be some of their items/gold.
Maybe some bonus exp depending on the other persons level

[Silviyius]

I love the ideas of rewards but however I don't like the idea of "random item drops"  Unless they are those tokens or trophy's others spoke of.  It feels more nature if they drop there inventory right there where they died.  Like how it would be if you were to really take someoen out in real life "Lets keep it in fantasy land though"  I say have slots where you can place items in to be protected upon death because that way at least you can re-enter battle if you are smart enough to of picked the right items. 

Maybe have 3 or 4 slots that can be earned by special token drops then more slots can be obtained by maybe in the shop.  "In Game purchases" 

[BuFFo]

The idea of safe slots is very good. I have played in games where you never dropped anything that was equipped, but, you would lose everything you were carrying that was not equipped.

I am sure we can have a happy medium for drops upon death that will make PvP exciting, but not frustrating to those participating in it.

[Fixer]

Dropping any items you own is off the table.  Done.  I thought I went over this with lots of people before, so i was hoping it would be avoided completely.

Other then that.. gold, tokens, trophys, special pvp xp, etc, are all on the table as good ideas

[Silviyius]

I hate to say something rude like this out in public but I'm sorry Jarrett this saddens me...  I've been a bit disappointed by some of the things that are set in stone.  Its almost as if some of you have been owned to many times and are afraid of certain things cause you never been a high level player.  Anyways...  Sad.

[Scrittl]

I like the decission to not use item-dropping. In games like Ultima Online it may work, because most items were not that valuable, but its was just annoying. (Not just as the loosing player)

I like the experience for pvp idea, but this can easily be used for "cheating". (So you need to implement something against that).

Personally I really like Battlefield-pvp. (doesn't mean that pvp has to be disabled everywhere else, I just enjoy it mostly in special areas made for that.)
Tournaments are really nice too, especially if there are not enough players online at the same time.

[BuFFo]

I like the decission to not use item-dropping. In games like Ultima Online it may work, because most items were not that valuable, but its was just annoying. (Not just as the loosing player)

Agreed. What makes PvP good in an MMO is good PvP, not item drops. The game will have various rewards for winning in PvP, and even some for losing, so there is incentive to keep doing PvP for both sides.

I like the experience for pvp idea, but this can easily be used for "cheating". (So you need to implement something against that).

Well, there may be ways to abuse the system, but I already have measures in mind to stop such a thing. For instance, PvP areas might be rather large, so logging into two players, and killing one over and over, will take a long time. Also, the game could be set up easily so that you get vastly less EXP by killing the same character more than once, so the diminishing returns won't make self ganking worth it.

Personally I really like Battlefield-pvp. (doesn't mean that pvp has to be disabled everywhere else, I just enjoy it mostly in special areas made for that.)

What will 99% happen is this; Within a Tier ( for example, a Tier 2 map holds only level 21 - 30 players) there will be two areas; one area for PvP and another for PvE. Now, there will be quests and PvE in the PvP area, but there will not be any PvP in a safe zone.

This way, players are still forced to venture out into the PvP area to complete all of the game's content, if they wish.

Also, the monsters in the PvP area will geenrally yield more Experience than the monsters in a PvE area.

There are other incentive to go out into a PvP area as well, too many to mention here, but trust me, PvP is still the focus of the game.

Tournaments are really nice too, especially if there are not enough players online at the same time.

Glad you brought this up.

Both Factions will have a Coliseum where they can enter tournaments, fight strong PvE monsters for fun and prizes, and maybe even enter an Instanced Battle Area where both sides can do PvP.

The coliseum might even have naval battles, teams versus lions, just a ton of fun stuff.

[Silviyius]

I like the experience for pvp idea, but this can easily be used for "cheating". (So you need to implement something against that).

You guys are joking right?     I'm not sure how much more of this I can take.  Personally I with all the safe guard Ideas you guys have come up with I don't think I'll play the game other then social, if none at all.  If you guys care about stuff like someone multilogging in and killing a responseless player then I'm afraid to hear what is next.  That kind of thing is wrong but really deserves to be safe guarded in the form of reports, not something implemented into the game as a thing you "can't do"  Stuff like this restricts legit players.  And besides, in battle you often encounter the same guy like 8 or 9 times depending on how determined they are.  So with that they become useless after killing them 3 or 4  times.  I even sometimes spare with a friend for hours on end in some games for xp.  I think you should trash that idea and forget it was ever said.  I'm sure you guys will come up with some idea that doesn't conflict with what I said    but why would you even care?  In games where they do what I said I can't think of anyone who would do that.  Unless your a bot.  Its boring and time consuming.

I'll say this...  Some things you devs see as a bad omen.  If you stop them then you ruin the game play for a large amount of people, little stuff like this usually has side effects on game play.  We can't stop everything sadly and that is where player moderators come in and user reports of course. 

Oh and you can stop everything but in the end you end up with a babyfied game that no one will enjoy but 4 year olds or one of those man child adults.

As for everything else I'm happy about or "whatever" its out of my hands.  I could rant on about it more but it seems I'm out numbered by a different type of players.

[Fixer]

First off garret, I understand your concerns.  For a lot of things I agree that it should be discouraged and left to player reporting and stuff.  I dont want to prevent a legit player from having multiple characters, and there will be times when he logs on at the same time.  There are lots of ways to prevent people abusing the system without actually preventing them from doing anything - by encouraging other kinds of play (i.e., give better rewards in different pvp areas, or whatever).

About your previous post (regarding me specifically), I dont think its fair to say "ive been owned too many times".  Talk to me about other things that are set in stone that you dont agree with.  This one (I thought) is a no brainer.  We are not and will not be a subscription based MMO.  We cannot rely on gimmicky timesinks. 

Edit: also, you have to stop looking at the game from one perspective.  I personally like a lot of things about certain games that dont make good game mechanics.  I can write forever about why starcraft is the best game ever - largely due to gimmicky bugs that worked out well.  Should other games try to replicate those bugs? Maybe. but when you make a new game, you have to consider who youre trying to reach.  We're trying to reach as many gamers as possible.  Those seeking full loot (or partial loot) are typically a more hardcore group of gamers. 

Regardless, I can explain more in detail with you.  I dont want to see you upset with the game.  If you honestly feel that the game is not going the way you want it to, Im sorry

[Scrittl]

Oh and you can stop everything but in the end you end up with a babyfied game that no one will enjoy but 4 year olds or one of those man child adults.

I dont think that a game is just for 4 years old funny if you do something against abusive play. Even more when you are still in the design phase and dont have to fix problems or major flaws in a allready running game.

You are right that you always have to think about ways to not affect legit play styles, but that is something we can talk about.

I said that a system rewarding players with experience for pvp may be abused. Nothing more, nothing less - I know many ways how this can be true and many ways how to pretend players from doing this without(!) affecting legit players in any way. You have to think about this and blaming someone for thinking about possible design flaws is the worst thing you can do.
I respect your opinion and your demand for free gameplay without restrictions, but try to do that constructive.

Please don't feel yourself personally attacked. I just want to state that posts like that wont get us any further. If you see that a design may affect legit gameplay in a bad way, then try to post that and think about what can be done against the bad playstyle without affecting legit players.